But it wouldn't necessarily be fair to say that it was strictly their (Christian and Raymond's) fault. You went along with it, and you had the power to say "No".
Yes and no. I mean, yes, I did have the power, but it would have been a fight, and no, I didn't have the power, because if I did step in, they would be trying to say that I was trying to take control again. So I was kind of [stuck between] a rock and a hard place.
When Burt came to you guys and announced his decision to leave the band, there was no discussion amongst you guys about possibly trying to carry on with a new singer?
No. I could never do that.
Is that because you feel that Burt is irreplaceable?
For FEAR FACTORY, yes. Of course, there's better singers out there than him, there's better guitar players, there's better drummers, there's better bass players—of course there is—but there is something about all four of us clicking together which was something that was magical that we could never change. I mean, we had always said that if someone had left the band, it would be over. We always said that, and everybody knew that.
Except, I presume, if that someone was Christian.
I didn't say that. (laughs) But yeah, if Christian had left the band, as far as I was concerned, the band could continue. As a matter of fact, to be honest with you, I thought Christian was gonna be the first one to go—because of his involvement with CYPRESS HILL, and because he wanted to be so hop hop that he wasn't there anymore. I thought that Christian was just going through the motions on stage, and going through the motions in the music, and I even noticed that he and Raymond were slowing down some of the tempos of the songs to make them more groovier—because he [Christian] thought that they were too fast on the record. And I think that that was because of his mentality of being into the hip hop, more groovier stuff. And if I said something, I was the asshole, so I just went along with it.
But there were never any discussions between you and Christian about him wanting to leave or being unhappy?
Every day, Christian would express his feelings—"F.ck Europe, I don't wanna go to Europe, I don't know why the f.ck I'm doing this, I'm not making enough money, blah blah blah." He was constantly complaining about things. Constantly complaining. "CYPRESS HILL's got this, they fly first class. How come we don't fly first class?" And I mean, if you really are that unhappy, maybe you should just go play with CYPRESS HILL.
Which I guess he did.
And the he's flying coach and he's going to Europe touring with CYPRESS HILL. So basically, he was unhappy being in FEAR FACTORY. It was obvious.
Since this whole thing happened and you guys decided to go your separate ways…
[jumps in] As a matter of fact, I thought it was probably for the better, because I could tell that a few of the members of the band's hearts weren't there. Christian's heart wasn't there, Burt's heart wasn't there.
What about Raymond?
Raymond's down. Raymond would be down [with continuing the band].
So out of all the guys in the band, Raymond was the only one that you felt you still had any musical chemistry left with?
Yeah. Everybody else, at this point, I would have had to pull teeth and force it out of them. It was better than we all went separate ways. After spending so many years with each other, it was like, "I think it's time we did something different, new". Not necessarily meaning in the musical style being different, but just playing with different guys.
Is this something that you had made clear to Raymond and Christian as well? Was there ever any type of discussion about the three of you forming a new band together?
I never would have brought it up to Christian. No way. Of course, not Burt. Raymond—yeah, I brought it up to Raymond, but Raymond doesn't want to tour.
But you would have continued playing with Raymond if he had agreed to tour?
Yeah. We have other projects together. Raymond won't leave his house unless he's getting paid. He won't walk out of his door unless he's getting paid. That's what these guys' mentalities are like now—they won't leave until they're getting paid.
After you guys decided to go your separate ways, did you immediately have an idea as to where you wanted to take your next project, musically speaking?
I was writing the songs for FEAR FACTORY, and I was kind of taking FEAR FACTORY in a newer direction.
What direction was that?
It was definitely much heavier, much groovier, and a lot more focused and a lot more thought-out songs. But at the same time, like I said… SLAYER's still my favorite band. I'm not about to turn my back on the fans that still like heavy music that still want me to put out heavy music, 'cause that's the music that I like. But I do have a versatile side to me that can write different types of music. So I wrote five songs. I actually wrote three songs, and me and Raymond wrote two songs together. So there were five songs. And two songs were used for FEAR FACTORY, three of them were my songs, so I'm taking those three songs and I'm doing new stuff with them with the new members. And they're all three different types of songs. One of them is really fast, mechanical—something that you would hear off Demanufacture that's ripping, with brutal vocals over it. And then, I've got something that's more groovier, that's more along the lines of "Edge Crusher" meets "Descent", with melodic vocals with heavy choruses and things like that. And then I've got one that's completely like "Invisible Wounds" meets "Resurrection" that's got melodic vocals all the way through. I'm demoing these three different types of songs, and that way people could see the versatility of the new style that I'm trying to do. I definitely still do want to be metal. There's definitely no doubt in my mind that I will be heavy. And if people don't like the fact that I'm saying that I'm gonna be that way, then f.ck them.
How did you hook up with your new singer Jason "Gong" Jones?
Jason is a guy that I've known for about 6-7 years, something like that. And I knew he was a talented singer. As a matter of fact, I was the one that recommended him to try out for SEPULTURA. I knew he was a talented singer, but of course, there was really nothing I could do with him, because I was already in a band. And all my other bands are singing in Spanish. So the minute FEAR FACTORY broke up, less than a week a later… He was in a band already—he was in a band called BUILT XL. And Monte Conner, [head of A&R] at Roadrunner Records, was interested in working with the band. So the minute [FEAR FACTORY] broke up, Kevin Estrada, at Roadrunner also, him and Monte were saying, "Dude, call f.cking Jason." And I'm like, "Jason's in a band." And he was like, "So what? Call him." So that was the first guy I called.
So he left BUILT XL to join your band?
Well, before he left [BUILT XL], he came and tried out. He basically sang on the demo, and I was like, "Ah, you're in". So when I said he was in, he basically went and quit his other band.
How would you describe Jason's vocal style in comparison to that of Burt?
Well, you can obviously tell that—and I don't mean this in any disrespect to Burt—but you can tell that [Jason] had more vocal training.
Because he has more control over his voice?
Correct. And he can do a lot more with his voice, too.
And he's not just limited to the heavy stuff or the melodic stuff—he can do both?
Correct. He can do a lot of the melodic stuff—really good melodic stuff. The difference between him and Burt was that… Burt was kind of like me—everything just came from the heart, and that's just where it came from. And you can tell Gong had some training. It's like a guitar player who can really know his music, or a guitar player who can just write some great riffs, just coming from his heart.
So this new band that you're going to form will be a four-piece, correct?
Right now, I'm thinking of a four-piece, but it might eventually go into a keyboard player or a DJ, or anything like that.
You don't have any ideas for, or candidates for other musicians right now—you're still looking?
I'm still looking for a great drummer. Someone who can do double-bass, and at the same time, do really fat grooves. I tried out a couple of guys, and either they're really good at the fast stuff, or they're really good at the slow stuff. And they're not good at nothing else. They can't do both. That's really hard to find. (végül csak Nick Barker tudta helyettesíteni a Dimmu-ból...)
You said you're looking for a drummer. Does that mean that, at the moment, you're not even looking for a bass player?
Yeah, but it's not as much of a priority. I'm going at certain steps. I found a singer, and now I need to find a drummer, and then I am going to find a bass player.
Do you have name for the band in mind?
I don't have a name for the band, and I don't have any [song] titles yet.
Are you finished recording the three songs by now?
Musically, we're done. Vocally, we're not done. We're recording at a studio called Klown Recordings in Santa Monica, California.
Have you been in contact with any of the other former FEAR FACTORY members since the split?
Only Raymond.
Do you know what those guys are doing, or what they're planning to do?
I know Christian is on tour with CYPRESS HILL. I don't know what Raymond's plans are. I know he's been working with the video game industry, and I don't know exactly what Burt's doing. The only person I spoke to [since the split] was Raymond.
Are you still going to be involved with BRUJERIA and ASESINO, or are you going to focus on this new band exclusively?
Yeah, I will still be involved with both of them, but my main focus will be my new band.
Tony Campos from STATIC-X is involved in ASESINO with you, right?
Yes, he sings and plays bass.
What kind of stuff is it, musically?
It's likea mixture of SLAYER, CANNIBAL CORPSE, and TERRORIZER.
And he sings in Spanish?
Everything's in Spanish. And Tony will be talking in Spanish between songs. We were talking about possibly having an actual translator on stage translating what he's saying. (laughs) We also have a touring drummer, since Raymond [who played on the record] doesn't want to tour. The touring drummer's name is Emilio Marquez.
Do you have any idea when peope might get a chance to hear this new project of yours? Will you be playing shows before you record the album?
Yes. As soon as we get a drummer, we're gonna be writing songs and we're gonna start just playing shows—anywhere, f.ckin' we don't care—your mom's house, backyard parties. It's gonna be a completely different mentality than FEAR FCTORY. I wanna get the new guys broken in.
But in terms of a studio record, you don't expect that to happen for some time?
I'm gonna say [that you can expect to hear it sometime] next year.
Raymond és a többiek részérõl:
In our exclusive interview with former FEAR FACTORY guitarist Dino Cazares, which was posted here last Monday, the axeman went to great lengths to paint the picture of a man who was as frustrated by his former bandmates' quest for mass commercial success as he was by their unwillingness to assume a greater share of the band's business responsibilities, ultimately creating an irreparable rift between him and frontman Burton C. Bell that eventually led to the group's untimely split.
Unsurprisingly, it took less than a day for former FEAR FACTORY drummer Raymond Herrera to contact BLABBERMOUTH.NET with the offer of a statement telling his side of the story—or "the truth", as he put it—which he promised would shed light on the reasons behind the group's break-up and the events leading up to the quartet's decision to go their separate ways.
As per Herrera's request, we began the interview with Raymond by giving him an opportunity to directly address some of the issues brought up in Cazares' interview—which Herrera chose to do without any interruptions from our side—after which we were allowed to ask the drummer direct questions about the band's split and the deep-rooted personal differences which ultimately caused led to the break-up of what was undoubtedly one of the most high-profile and most innovative extreme metal acts of the '90s.
Part I — Raymond Addresses Specific Points In Dino's Interview
On Burt's official statement following the group's split:
Burt put out a press release and said that he was leaving the band because he wanted to do something different, which was only partly true. In December 2001, he let Christian and I know that he could not work with Dino anymore. Burt devised a way to leave the band so that there was no blame put on anyone in particular. In the press release, he said nothing about the fact that he doesn't want to work with Dino or anything derogatory. Burt was trying to be diplomatic about the whole thing.
On Dino's claim that Burt told the band at the final meeting, "I don't want to play with you guys anymore":
Burt and Dino had been having a lot of problems for a very long time. The fact that me, Christian and Burt are still working together basically proves that the problem wasn't with the three of us. Burt never said that he didn't want work with us [Christian and myself]. He said that he didn't want to work with Dino.
On the implication that Dino was the first one to "pick up the pieces" following FEAR FACTORY's split:
About half year ago, it was obvious to us that the band would not continue. Coincidentally, we all had projects aside from FEAR FACTORY we were pursuing. Christian and I have been doing the KUSH project [with DEFTONES guitarist Stephen Carpenter and CYPRESS HILL frontman B-Real] for the last two and a half years. Christian has evolved into producer, forming a production group with B-Real and Eric "Bobo" Correa, while continuing to write and tour with CYPRESS HILL. As well, Burt, Christian, John [Bechdel, FF's old keyboardist] and myself have been putting Burt's [solo] record together now for about four months. Christian and I also have been putting a record together for Nuclear Blast [Records], which will have Oscar Garcia from TERRORIZER doing vocals. Not to mention, Christian and I have been collaborating on music for video games under my production company, Herrera Productions, which I started last September. So, to tell you the truth, Dino was actually the last one to pick up the pieces and start moving on here — everybody else in the band has already, for a while, kind of moved on.
Another thing that pissed me off in Dino's interview was that he said there was "too much freedom" in the band—as if it was a problem that other people in the band were pursuing side projects. Let me tell you something… BRUJERIA was around before FEAR FACTORY even was thought of. Side projects were already involved before FEAR FACTORY even started, so for Dino to say that is so hypocritical. What he means with that is, "Well, side projects are fine as long as I'm involved.” For example, when Burt did the G/Z//R thing a few years ago, Dino didn't like that. When Christian started working with CYPRESS HILL, Dino didn't like that either until Christian involved Dino. At one point Dino even insisted that our management inform Christian that he could no longer be involved in CYPRESS HILL and KUSH.
On the October 2001 physical altercation between Dino and Burt on the band's tour bus:
I was in the back of the bus playing video games, of course, because that's all I ever do [on the road], and this fight broke out in the front. Dino's guitar tech runs to the back and says, "Burt and Dino are having a fistfight." And I'm thinking, "Well, let 'em fight." But the bus is moving and I'm thinking someone is going to hit the bus driver and we'll probably all crash and die. So I go up there and I kind of help stop it. I knew this was a bad situation—essentially, the beginning of the end. I ask Dino what happened and he gave me his story, which is the story that he [gave you] in the interview. The next day, I spoke with everyone else individually. Let's just say, I heard seven stories one way, and Dino's story another.
On the bandmembers' different personalities:
Dino said that one of the reasons for [the band's success] was the fact that everybody was different and everybody listened to different types of music, yet in his interview, he goes to point out that Burt listens to NICK CAVE, trying to make it seem like a bad thing, and points out that Christian listens to hip hop, as if, for some reason, that's a bad thing (pedig ez tényleg nagyon szar! :P). But at the same time, he goes to say that our diversity is one of the reasons the band did so well. So, go figure…
On Dino's controlling ways and the band's decision-making process:
Everyone in this band was an equal partner of the company itself. Everybody in this band made decisions, some good, some bad. Dino did try to control the band through manipulation of management, the record company, and people in the band. And he would straight-out lie to our faces to cover up about the things that he did behind our back. All those things eventually got back to the rest of us. Trust me, we were on to him from the beginning.
On Dino's speculation that Christian held it against him that Cazares played bass on Demanufacture:
Demanufacture was originally supposed to be recorded in Chicago. There were a lot of problems with the studio—so we had to basically leave the studio halfway through the drum tracks. We were stuck in a hotel for about a week and a half trying to find a new studio. Soon after that, we found Bearsville, this place in New York, which is where we did the record, but we were already way behind schedule. After I did my drum tracks, it was Dino's turn. Dino took a week to get a guitar tone and another week to do the guitar tracks. Then, Christian had to come in and do his tracks. It did come to the point where Dino had to do half of the [bass] tracks, but it wasn't because Christian didn't know the songs, it was because Dino changed a lot of the parts of the songs while he was tracking guitars. Christian, at that point, had no bad feelings towards Dino. And as for the comment that Christian wanted to be included in his side projects, Christian never wanted to be a part of BRUJERIA or a part of any other [of Dino's] side projects. Christian would let us borrow his bass gear to do BRUJERIA records. He offered it to us—we never even had to ask him for it.
On Dino's assertion that Raymond and Christian were primarily motivated by money:
I find that very funny, because literally the day after Burt quit the band, Dino called me and asked me to persuade Burt to do this last record (Terminate, a Terminator - Down of Faith játékhoz). There was a lot of money on the line and Dino wanted to get paid.